One of my absolutely most loyal readers, Ol' BC, posted this recently, correctly stating that the steps Barack Obama has been taking are steps in the "wrong direction", and that "in the long run this will probably be looked upon as the dark days of the United States".

Of course, his troll Mark (whom we have known by another pseudonym) chastised BC for doing the right thing (calling a fascist/communist/socialist a fascist/communist/socialist), saying it's "not productive". Yeah, ok. And calling water water isn't productive and calling a dog a dog isn't productive. Doesn't make it false.

Then he says this:

Obama is not Hitler or Mussolini, nor are his actions even comparable, except on the most incidental levels. You are going to have to do better than this, I think.

So Obama is not at all like Hitler or Mussolini, no way.

Well anyone who's been around this blog a while may remember my post from way back about the Nazis and what they represented or claimed to represent. I did this defending myself and fellow conservatives from accusations that we were like the Nazis, seeking to prove that not only were we not, but that liberals were throwing stones in a glass house. I came to BC's defense:

Dunno about that Mark.

Barack's actions since taking office are largely aligned with the Nazi Party Platform.

He may not be using the same rhetoric, but it would be hard to deny that he has a similar socialist/fascist agenda.

RWR
www.rightwingrocker.com

So Mark tried to paint me into a corner with this:

Please show, with actual examples or facts or statistics just how Obama's actions are "largely aligned with the Nazi Party Platform". Keep in mind also that most governments tend to be similar in many ways. Try not to use only examples that can be claimed by Monarchies, Socialists and Communists. Okay? I await your reply.

Honestly, it's irrelevant that governments are similar in many ways. Other governments engaging in evil actions doesn't make it right. Colonel Hogan, who also comes around here a bit, defended BC as well, saying that labels are important, and we should use them. Still we got the same stuff from Mark:

Your labels have become meaningless due to the fact that you have no understanding of their historical meaning or significance. We use labels to identify things, yes. However, it behooves us to use the RIGHT labels.

So the fascist label is meaningless with regard to Obama. And I suppose it was meaningful when it was used with regard to me? When I was called a Nazi, I stood up and demonstrated what a Nazi really was, and that not only was I not one, but that those calling me such were more in line with what they were calling me. So now that a socialist liberal is in office, words now have to mean things? Come on. Truth be told, they've meant things all along, and now that the shoe is on the other foot and a real socialist with Nazi tendencies is in office, we're getting protestations from the Left. Well boo fucking hoo. I didn't see Mark defending me against such allegations three and a half years ago, and with a real SoCoFascist in office, I'm calling the libs on it when they cry foul.

So Mark then says (to Herr Colonel):

How is Obama like Hitler and Mussolini? And please don't answer in a way that could not describe any political leader. Use specific examples instead of tired rhetorical garbage.

Examples instead of tired rhetorical garbage. Fine. I think the best way to demonstrate that Obama has actual Nazi tendencies is to show him what Nazi tendencies we're talking about, and what Obama and the libs are doing that would indicate such a tendency. I can think of nothing that would be more fair. I took some time to be thorough:

Barack's actions since taking office are largely aligned with the Nazi Party Platform. - RWR

Please show, with actual examples or facts or statistics just how Obama's actions are "largely aligned with the Nazi Party Platform". - Mark

Interesting, Ol' BC, how people forget what I have already demonstrated.

Anyway, here we go again, repeating what I've already shown.

Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race. - Pt. 4, Nazi Party Platform

Obama and his people are treating white men, particularly those with money, like Hitler treated Jews. This has been a pattern with liberals for a long time in this country. The only thing missing is the death camps. Listening to liberals, you'd think wealthy people and white men were the root of every problem in America, when it's the Left that is to blame.

We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. - Pt. 7, Nazi Party Platform

This is a classic description of what in this country is called the Welfare State.

The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all. - Pt. 10, Nazi Party Platform

To each according to his need ... from each according to his ability. Classic Marxism and American Leftism.

bolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery. - Pt. 11, Nazi Party Platform

Attempting to equalize outcomes is advocated by Obama and liberals all over America. It's what Affirmative Action and Socialist Security are all about.

personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits. - Pt. 12, Nazi Party Platform

Obama and his minions were accusing Bush of this through the whole campaign, in case you forgot.

We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts). - Pt. 13, Nazi Party Platform

Ever heard of General Motors?

We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries. - Pt. 14, Nazi Party Platform

GM, AIG, and every other redistributive ponzi scheme the Democrats will come up with with Obama's blessing.

We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare. - Pt. 15, Nazi Party Platform

More Socialist Security ...

We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality. - Pt. 16, Nazi Party Platform

Controlling who does and does not have money, government taking over businesses (GM again ...) and pretending to be interested in a "healthy middle class".

We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land. - Pt. 17, Nazi Party Platform

Kelo v. New London was a liberal land-grab, in case you forgot, and Obama's people have their fingerprints all over it.

The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program - Pt. 20, Nazi Party Platform

Liberals love to indoctrinate kids through the public schools - yet another reason they shouls be abolished, yet Obama keeps kissing up to the NEA.

The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young. - Pt. 21, Nazi Party Platform

Obamacare and the government telling people what they can and cannot do with regard their health.

We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race - Pt. 24, Nazi Party Platform

It is undeniable that the recent DHS memo targeted at conservatives stinks terribly of this.

For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. - Pt. 25, Nazi Party Platform

Set up a big all-powerful government to force everyone to do as The One says.

All of this is taken DIRECTLY from the Nazi Party Platform and the actions of Barack Obama and other liberals in recent history.

RWR
www.rightwingrocker.com

Mark's response to this says it all:

Good grief. I can find similarities between a beaver and a giraffe, too, but that does not make a beaver a giraffe.

I am through arguing with you. For one, your "facts" are nothing more than slanted interpretations of actions.

You are a good example of someone who finds just what they are looking for. You may interpret my leaving as a defeat, but in truth it is just my realization that talking with any of you is utterly pointless.

I knew it would come to this, but I tried anyway! Silly me.

In other words, game, set, match. Somehow showing the actual relevant points of the Nazi Party platform is "nothing more than slanted interpretations of actions." What would anyone interpret his leaving the debate as at this point other than defeat? Not one of my points were refuted by Mark. Why not? Because each and every one of them was true ... And I used the ACTUAL NAZI PLATFORM and ACTUAL ACTIONS BY OBAMA AND LIBERALS to prove my point. I definitely found what I was looking for, and properly supported my position. In a real debate, it would now be his turn to demonstrate why what I said was false, using the same facts and others to support his position. No dice. Just the signature liberal hard-headedness we have seen for the last hundred years. It's really getting old, I think. I did respond, however:

I am through arguing with you. For one, your "facts" are nothing more than slanted interpretations of actions.

Fact: Obama supports, as did the Nazis:

1. Government takeover of land
2. Enslaving the poor through welfare
3. Redistribution of wealth
4. Attempts to equalize economic outcomes
5. Government takeover of industries and businesses
6. Enslaving the elderly through Socialist Security
7. Empty promises to the middle class
8. Indoctrination of children through government control of schools
9. Government control of doctors and patients through government "healthcare"
10. Using the power of government to silence those who disagree
and 11. A big out-of-control government to enforce all of the above.

Obama has advocated all of these things. I didn't tell him to. I didn't "slant" anything. Are you trying to say Obama wants to dismantle welfare, socialist security, government schools, government healthcare, government involvement in industry and business, punitive taxation, and big government? Or are you trying to say the Nazis didn't advocate these things?

After all, I merely quoted their platform.

Mark, I've already had this argument and won several times over. You aren't leaving because we are being unreasonable, you are leaving because you can't win arguments with people who have the facts and the intelligence to use them. You aren't the first liberal I've buried with this. Liberals match the Nazis on 17 out of the 25 points of the Nazi Party Platform. Conservatives only 3. That's very damning for your side, especially given that at the time I wrote my infamous post (September, 2005), I was actually defending conservatives against those who would call us Nazis, which was the liberals' big thing at the time.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, though, the facts are the same. Libs haven't turned around and started advocating the dismantling of the socialist/fascist empire the US has become, and real conservatives haven't turned around and started advocating building it up.

The way I see it, you guys made your bed, and now that you have one of these jerks in office by your vote, you can now lie in it.

RWR
www.rightwingrocker.com

I further reminded him of what his original question was:

How is Obama like Hitler and Mussolini? And please don't answer in a way that could not describe any political leader. Use specific examples instead of tired rhetorical garbage.

How do you like that? I give the guy what he wants and he struts out with his panties in a wad.

So much for spirited debate - MUAHAHAHA.

RWR
www.rightwingrocker.com

Couldn't help myself. Painting a liberal into a corner is just too much fun. HAHAHA.

Mark responded with something rather strange.

I am happy that you think you won the debate. However, as I have asked you to do: Please do not use examples that could not refer to dozens of other governments and leaders. This you have not done.

Quite the contrary, I would think that pointing to specific aspects of Nazi philosophy and their accompanying actions by Obama and the American Left would be more than sufficient to prove such a point. Apparently I was supposed to look past these things just because some other asshole government official in another country had done it? Fuck that. The idea that Obama may just be copying some other evil government's patterns isn't and shouldn't be any kind of comfort for anyone.

Of course leaders of countries will share traits of Mussolini and Hitler. Just as a beaver shares traits with a giraffe. However, this does not make Obama any more a Fascist than it makes a beaver a giraffe.

No it doesn't, but it is important to call attention to the things that are similar, and have a discussion about it, especially those things that Mark may advocate, such as Socialist Security, welfare, and socialist healthcare. These things are not the new ideas that the libs sell them as. They are tired garbage that has gone from rhetoric to action repeatedly throughout history, and ruined the people they were supposed to help in every case. Mark never bothered to argue the merits of these things. Instead he just pretended that I had somehow skirted the issue.

Your argument is not an argument. This is how you won. By your reasoning, 90% of the leaders of the free world are Fascists.

Again, the aspects of each leader's tendencies must be analyzed in this way in order to make a fair determination. I will also remind everyone that nobody called Obama a fascist. Attention was simply called to the things he has done that are reminiscent of Mussolini and Hitler. That's all Ol' BC did, and that's all I did.

I am leaving this site, not with my panties in a wad, but with a sense of utter disdain for you and your idiocy. I leave because it is completely pointless to attempt to talk reasonably to a chimpanzee. I leave because you deny even the evidence of global warming, which is utterly asinine, whatever the causes. I leave because, frankly, I would rather discuss issues with people whose minds are not made up before they open their mouths.

I appreciate BC's willingness to show evidence of his argument of late. You, however, don't even approach this sort of reasoning. I appreciate that BC can probably at least entertain the notion that he doesn't know everything, like me, and like you.

However, you are not BC. You are not a thinker. You are incapable of reasonable and rational debate. I know you think you are, but therein lies the problem. You are not. You rely to heavily on "self evidence", as if because you know it to be true, everyone else must see it too or they are stupid.

I have tried hard not to debate in this style. I have given evidence and asked for evidence. I have admitted uncertainty about many things. Let's face it, truly the more a man knows and the wiser he becomes, the more he must admit that he doesn't really know. However, you are all too certain about things that are far beyond your domain and jurisdiction. This is not wisdom. It is folly. And it is men like you who, ironically, ultimately become the pawns of political movements.

Good day.

HAHA. Rocker is a political pawn. Rocker's refusal to buy into the global warming hoax is asinine. Rocker is not a thinker, and incapable of reasonable and rational debate.

Mark has tried not to present what he perceives as self-evident truths in his debate, or call people stupid (or asinine) for not seeing what he sees. Yeah ok.

Mark has given evidence (that Obama is a responsible non-fascist politician?), and asked for evidence, and Rocker is spouting on about things beyond his understanding.

Yeah, ok. Believe all that, and I have some nice oceanfront property to sell you in Colorado. Talk about folly. It's just too funny being told that people like me become pawns of political movements by a political pawn. It would be even funnier if it weren't so sad.

However, as I have asked you to do: Please do not use examples that could not refer to dozens of other governments and leaders. This you have not done.

This didn't have anything to do with "dozens of other governments and leaders". It had to do with Barack Obama and the Nazi Party Platform. Other governments and leaders are irrelevant. If Obama is doing it, and it's part of the Nazi Platform, it's FAIR GAME.

Of course leaders of countries will share traits of Mussolini and Hitler.

What you are saying here is that there are things that the Nazis advocated that were good. In fact there were, such as their somewhat pro-life stance, but a typical American liberal stands by the bad things in the Nazi platform like Socialist Security and government healthcare. Liberals in America match on seventeen of the twenty-five points of the Nazi platform, where conservatives match on three.

Your argument is not an argument. This is how you won. By your reasoning, 90% of the leaders of the free world are Fascists.

So in pointing out specifically which points of the Nazi platform your guy matches up with (which happened to be my argument), my argument is not an argument. With the free world becoming less free every day, these leaders have to be called something. This stuff has to be stopped. When the Russians get to lecturing Americans about the dangers of socialism, you know it's way out of control. If 90% of the leaders of the free world subscribe to some kind of big government fascism/socialism/communism, does it then make sense that we follow, when we've seen the damage it's done to THEM?

I am leaving this site, not with my panties in a wad, but with a sense of utter disdain for you and your idiocy.

In other words, you are leaving with your panties in a wad. I provide you with wisdom, and you brush it off as being foolish or, as in the case of your global warming hoax, "asinine".

I leave because it is completely pointless to attempt to talk reasonably to a chimpanzee.

Thanks for finally getting that message and leaving us to talk to actual adult humans.

I leave because you deny even the evidence of global warming, which is utterly asinine, whatever the causes.

Changes in climate are caused by the sun, regardless of which direction. Even if your side is right, one degree over a hundred years is NOT going to hurt anyone (and it would arguably help in many ways), and since there's nothing you or I or anyone else could do about it even if it were happening, I suggest that YOUR position is asinine. After all, I HAVE looked at both sides, and made up my mind - before opening my mouth to talk to you indeed.

I appreciate BC's willingness to show evidence of his argument of late. You, however, don't even approach this sort of reasoning.

Again, I have made this point repeatedly, with evidence. Liberals love to dismiss it because it doesn't come from their beloved big-government funded sources, but the sources are far more credible than anything you have shown. Heck, the people on my side of the issue use actual weather instruments to record their data instead of computer models rigged to support their position. Can't have that now, can we?

However, you are not BC. You are not a thinker. You are incapable of reasonable and rational debate. I know you think you are, but therein lies the problem. You are not. You rely to heavily on "self evidence", as if because you know it to be true, everyone else must see it too or they are stupid.

I think our esteemed host would disagree with you, and I would posit that creaming you in debate, as I just did, proves me capable, and more so than you.

The only things that I have posited as being "self-evident" are that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, etc. You know what I'm talking about, that "government even in its best state is but a necessary evil, in its worst state an intolerable one"? Stuff like that. These things being self-evident form the basis of what is SUPPOSED to be going on in this country, and sadly, that's been thrown to the dogs by liberals like Bush and Obama and just about every president this past century, and the congresses and courts that accompanied them.

I have tried hard not to debate in this style. I have given evidence and asked for evidence.

You haven't given evidence. You have simply dismissed evidence - nay, proof - of things Obama has in common with the Nazi party by saying they are true about others as well. That doesn't refute a damned thing when the problem is the governments themselves, including the ones you speak of. The more government is involved, the less free the people are. You seem to fail to see that.

However, you are all too certain about things that are far beyond your domain and jurisdiction. This is not wisdom. It is folly. And it is men like you who, ironically, ultimately become the pawns of political movements.

You have been fooled by the so-called "progressive movement", and are nothing less than a pawn in it. I doubt that anyone who knows my positions on matters and how they were derived would say that those opinions are "beyond my domain or jurisdiction". As an American, every issue on which I have commented is fully within my domain and jurisdiction, as the people are the final arbiters of all issues in this country (or are supposed to be).

Anyway, I wish you all the best for a happy life, even as Americans come to their senses and dismantle your beloved intrusive government. You can take solace in the fact that it will take a long time to tear down 100-plus years of government growth, and it won't be finished in your lifetime.

Cheers!

RWR
www.rightwingrocker.com

Mark went on to accuse me of putting words into his mouth and arguing against those points. Of course, as you can see by the quotes here (the global warming thing was from another thread). He also said that since other "leaders" did the same things, that it was unfair to single out Obama. Again, I say, boo fucking hoo. I honestly couldn't give a flying fuck about other leaders in other countries. I don't have to live under their regimes. I do care about the poor slobs that do have to live under them, and I will stand firmly against people like Mark or Barack Obama who would force my children or me to face their fate. That is why bringing this subject up is important, and I thank Ol' BC for doing so.

RWR